
Forum for discussion of airsoft and airsoft events in Alabama, the Region, and the World |
| | | Sniper Certification and Ranging School | |
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Hellfire903 newbie

Posts: 51 Join date: 2008-09-22
 | Subject: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:11 pm | |
| To allow for a more "realistic" feel and to give snipers a longer engagement distance, we've considered setting up a Sniper Certification School to teach snipers how to properly handle and use 550+ fps guns. Subjects to be covered include: The physics behind airsoft -BB Trajectory -BB Inertia -Hop-up effects -Terminal energy -Laws of Momentum And field ranging -Distinction of targets at 10' increments up to 300 ft. -Repeated, accurate selection of targets within or outside ranges near minimum engagement distance -Repeated, accurate estimation of targets on range -Appropriate ranges for side-arm use After a sniper has gone through this course, they will be issued a temporary, 3 month license; Which must be renewed 4 times, after which a permanent license may be issued. Renewal constitutes a revisiting of the class topics, and a retesting of range estimation. ANY failures will constitute a reset of the time to permanent licensing, OR suspension of the license. Graduates from this course will be considered Experts in the field of airsoft physics and range estimation. |
|  | | BigWheat newbie

Posts: 9 Join date: 2008-09-30
 | Subject: Re: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:29 am | |
| This would be a great class to have. Sign me up! |
|  | | StarWars Sergent


Posts: 669 Join date: 2008-09-22 Age: 16 Location: Arab Alabama
 | Subject: Re: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:59 pm | |
| Will you be able to partake in this even if you are not a sniper just to learn the physics of airsoft? |
|  | | Zheller newbie

Posts: 62 Join date: 2008-10-05
 | Subject: Re: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:30 pm | |
| I'd sign up for in a heartbeat. When I saw it on the Ohio forums I believe it was, I talked to Hellfire about it that day, and we thought it'd be pretty awesome to have something like this around here. Even if you aren't a sniper, like Star Wars said, it'd just be nice to learn some new things. |
|  | | Hellfire903 newbie

Posts: 51 Join date: 2008-09-22
 | Subject: Re: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:39 pm | |
| Definately. We just need a range set up and class will be in session. |
|  | | Zheller newbie

Posts: 62 Join date: 2008-10-05
 | Subject: Re: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:16 pm | |
| And a pretty nice rifle... to do the range testing and such.... |
|  | | A3 militia


Posts: 231 Join date: 2008-09-23 Age: 32 Location: Tallassee, AL
 | Subject: Re: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:49 pm | |
| Here's where I see 2 problems right off the bat: - Most reputable airsoft insurance policies stipulate a 500 FPS limit on sniper weapons with a 100 ft. MED.
- This "Licensing" seems, to me, to be a way that someone might attempt to "govern", as it were, who can or cannot play a particular role in airsoft.
While the overall idea of this class is quite good, it gives me a sense that a single group or entity shall attempt to govern an aspect of our sport in such a way as to become THE authority of that aspect; that without this group or entity's certification, a potential airsoft sniper might not be allowed to ply his/her chosen role and craft on an airsoft field. I find this to be a very disturbing prospect. Additionally, the prospect of a "License" lends the possibility that this group or entity can exploit airsofters for financial gain. I have no problem with someone offering to teach a class for a fee, should they be qualified to do so. However, requiring airsofters to pay for a license in order to be able to play in a particular role, as I see it, is exploitation. It's simply wrong. In a very real sense, it would be a "Sniper Tax". That is something I cannot condone. In conclusion, I say drop the FPS to the industry acceptable (and safe) 500 FPS and loose this "License" BS. If you want to issue a certification of course completion, that's cool. But a "License" is ridiculous. Respectfully, |
|  | | joshuaearlwade 2nd lieutenant


Posts: 776 Join date: 2008-09-22 Age: 21 Location: mccalla alabama
 | Subject: Re: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:06 pm | |
| The class sound great but I agree....there is no national or state or county airsoft authority....There is only insurance companies and field owners now the only way that i see this could work would be to negotiate with the insurance company....i don't know how hard that would be but it probably wouldn't work.. If there is a field owner that doesn't have insurance you could probably talk him into allowing those who have gone through the class to use these benifits The class would be a great thing but i doubt anyone would want to come back 4 times to keep their "license". can anyone tell me is there a law about how many fps a full auto civillian gun can shoot in alabama.? |
|  | | madrule Admin

Posts: 255 Join date: 2008-09-24 Age: 38 Location: Alabaster, Alabama
 | Subject: Re: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:38 am | |
| This is just a suggestion. Instead of a licences use a little military twist. The whole purpose of this game is military simulation. Issue patches with different classification for each completion of the courses. You could use the same training field to put on marksmen/sniper compettions. The competions could have differnt classes for DMR(400 fps),Sniper(500fps+), etc. |
|  | | Zheller newbie

Posts: 62 Join date: 2008-10-05
 | Subject: Re: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:49 am | |
| It wouldn't prevent just anyone from using a sniper/dmr, anyone who wanted to still partake in those roles would still be able to. This would simply allow someone who had a powerful bolt, or dmr as suggested, to use it on an actual play field, and the license or w/e you'd like to call it now, would simply let the owners know that this person knows how to safely and effectively engage someone with a gun that will be shooting bb's with more energy than 550 fps and below weapons, and they are responsible for harm caused by misuse of the weapon. |
|  | | A3 militia


Posts: 231 Join date: 2008-09-23 Age: 32 Location: Tallassee, AL
 | Subject: Re: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:03 am | |
| It seems to me that some of you are still missing the point when it comes to the FPS issue. Any respectable field owner WILL NOT allow someone onto their field with an airsoft rifle that shoots in excess of the limits set by their insurance provider. It would place them in a position of extreme liability. It does not matter one bit if the shooter in question has been certified in any way, shape, form or fashion. If, heaven forbid, the idiot shooting over 500 FPS injured another player, not only would that person be held liable, BUT, so would the field owner, event host, and any staff that allowed it to happen in the first place. The legal ramifications alone are unpleasant. Let alone the possible physical harm that may come to someone on the receiving end of one of those hot guns. |
|  | | armyvet newbie


Posts: 52 Join date: 2008-09-22 Age: 35 Location: Montevallo, AL
 | Subject: Re: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:16 am | |
| | Zheller wrote: | | It wouldn't prevent just anyone from using a sniper/dmr, anyone who wanted to still partake in those roles would still be able to. This would simply allow someone who had a powerful bolt, or dmr as suggested, to use it on an actual play field, and the license or w/e you'd like to call it now, would simply let the owners know that this person knows how to safely and effectively engage someone with a gun that will be shooting bb's with more energy than 550 fps and below weapons, and they are responsible for harm caused by misuse of the weapon. |
This statement is really irrrelavent. Just because a sniper/dmr shoots 550 fps, it doesn't change how you operate the thing. What would change is the med. Whether someone uses an AEG or a sniper/dmr, that individual is supposed to know how to use their weapon responsibly, and to know when and when not to engage someone safely no matter what! Like A3 stated, it's a matter of safety on the field. If insurance providers stipulate 500 fps, then insurance would be of no use in the event that someone was injured by a weapon in excess of 500 fps, even if they had a little card saying" I know what I'm doing". From stories that I've heard, I personally, wouldn't want to get hit by something that shoots 550 fps or greater. Judging from the case that you have made, everyone that participates in airsoft should, and or must have certification or license based on your premise "that this person knows how to safely and effectively engage someone... and they are responsible for harm caused by misuse of the weapon". This applies to everyone, not just snipers shooting 500 fps, 550 fps, or otherwise. _________________ JG BAR-10 w/scope and SRC Harris style bipod, EdGi 6.01 TBB, other things "What is your major malfunction Knumbnuts? Didin't your mommy and your daddy show you enough attention when you were a child?" R. Lee Ermey "Prevent illiteracy, read to your child because I hate STUPITY!" author : ME
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|  | | Hellfire903 newbie

Posts: 51 Join date: 2008-09-22
 | Subject: Re: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:23 pm | |
| You people really are completely missing the point. If a field owner's insurance will NOT allow fire in excess of 500 FPS, then the purposes of this class are entirely irrelevant. Also: EVERY airsoft player should be able to judge the easy MED involved with their sub 500 fps weapon, and if they can't, might want to spend some time out in their yard with a TAPE MEASURE. This class's purpose is to teach users how to properly handle the FAR MORE DANGEROUS 550+fps DMRs and Snipers. This class will have EXTREMELY strict licensing, to reflect the danger inherent in these weapons. That's all I'm going to say. |
|  | | armyvet newbie


Posts: 52 Join date: 2008-09-22 Age: 35 Location: Montevallo, AL
 | Subject: Re: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:21 pm | |
| I'm trying to figure out how one would properly handle a 550+ weapon any differently than a 500 and lower. The same rules and guidelines apply to everyone. And if they're "FAR MORE DANGEROUS", then they have no place on the field to begin with. Now if you want to hold a class to teach the fine art of sniping, that's a different story. So far as the description of the class goes, it is nothing more than teaching how an airsoft rife works, how a plastic bb moves through the air, and how to judge distance. And in the end, that person is supposed to be an expert in airsoft physics and range estimation which, in return, makes them able to operate a 550fps+ weapon? Sounds like the whole class missed its intended purpose other than just regurgitating general airsoft knowledge. Sounds to me like the class needs to be teaching common sense. How are those conducting the class deemed experts and qualified to instruct the ignorant? Did the higher highers have their cards saying "I know what I'm doing", thus giving those instructing their cards saying "I know what I'm doing"? Did those doing the instructing, obtain the designation of sniper via the military or law enforcement agency? If not, what gives you the authority to teach, much less give a license that would be remotely able to be viewed by the insurance providers as official and binding? Sounds like the whole class is irrelavent, outside of teaching those new to firearms/milsim something. The class as a whole is a good idea, but the intended purpose of it is bogus. _________________ JG BAR-10 w/scope and SRC Harris style bipod, EdGi 6.01 TBB, other things "What is your major malfunction Knumbnuts? Didin't your mommy and your daddy show you enough attention when you were a child?" R. Lee Ermey "Prevent illiteracy, read to your child because I hate STUPITY!" author : ME
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|  | | StarWars Sergent


Posts: 669 Join date: 2008-09-22 Age: 16 Location: Arab Alabama
 | Subject: Re: Sniper Certification and Ranging School Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:46 am | |
| Come on guys.. Are you the field owner? Let him do what he wants. |
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