Everyone,

I have been doing some follow up investigation on my own in regards to a definitive ruling on the legality of the homemade BB grenades. I have discovered that there is a change that they may be legal and be used again. the problem is there has to a ruling given by the EIPB. The EIPB (Explsoive Industry Program Branch) is the branch of the ATF that governs explosives and would define what is considered a destructive device. I spoke to one of their agents today. They had no answer at this time. I have to submit a letter detailing the manufacture and intent of the device in question which may require a sample device. It will be reviewed and a decision will be given from their board. I will then receive a letter either allowing a variance for the grenades or defining them as a destructive device. The big promising part is there was a letter on file for the manufacture of a paintball grenade that was approved. That means we are not walking on unfamiliar ground. I keep everyone up to date on any developments. To make sure that everyone is clear. These grenades are still not be used on the field until I get that letter.

Cool Cool!! It would be great if we were able to use them. It would make for a little more excitement.

Not to be a killjoy, but even if you do get that paper stating that it is not an IED, then you have to get it past the insurance companies. Easier said than done. And, of course, there is still the issue of inconsistency of manufacture that will be a hurdle to overcome with both the ATF and insurers. If it's a pre-manufactured item, an not a home-grown variety, it will be much more likely to be approved. However, that's not what we are talking about. And, finally, there is the issue of local laws that have to be addressed as well. While the ATF may not have a problem with them in the future, that does not mean that a local law will not prohibit it.

Well, I guess time will tell. You opened Pandora's box and now it will be run to ground. It is very unlikely local laws will differ significantly from ATF guidlines but of course there is always the possibility. I'm thinking this information should be shared on every airsoft forum nationwide as this could be a significant issue for the sport. As for getting anything pat the insurance companies, weel that to is another Pandora's box and I wonder who will open it. Personally, these home devices wea re discussing don't bother me but I also don't use them. It matters not to me one way or the other but apparently to some it is a major issue, possibly woorthy of a crusade but again crusaders always have ulterior motives. Nothing is as it is presented or seems. I recommend we all keep an open mind about this issue and comply with ATF guidelines, whatever they maybe. That is the first hurdle and then tackle each of the following issues to get a difinitve answer from an authoratative documented source. Depending on who you are talking to, this glass is half empty or half full. You decide..

Well, I guess we will have to ban all fireworks then. It's a matter of intention, I could use anything as an IED. We might as well ban anything and everything that could possibly be turned into an IED. I think I'm going to write a senator and tell him that automobiles are now considered IEDs and should be banned...

what a load of crap!

or we could tell the sissies and killjoys just to stay home

soooo are we talking about the tp grenades or what?....i don't see how it could be illegal if it's built around a single ,already legal firework.....

I think more about a explosive device that shoots out projectiles. A firecracker by itself is harmless to some states (Alabama) but to other states it's deadly (Georgia).

Out in Nevada, fireworks are illegal (with the exception of professional displays). They're also illegal in Illinois (even though there is a TON of people who cross state lines to get them for the 4th of July). However, the firecracker itself is not the issue at hand. It is when you combine it in such a way that it creates a device designed to expel shrapnel with explosive force. Regardless of the weakness of the charge, these TP grenades, as currently classified, are IEDs and are subject to criminal law.

AND Your the kind of killjoy that would bring it forward to the atf's attention

what a douche.....

HAHAHAHAHA....now that's funny....i don't care who you are....

Not to be a "Killjoy", but I have to agree with A3 here, If these TP grenades are deemed illegal by the ATF, then we shouldn't be using them, there is already a bad rep in airsoft.. and we don't need to bring it more negative attention.

Patrick,

I have kept my mouth shut for a great while but this has really pushed me over the edge. First, You are a douche bag. When the word was invented, it was intended just for you that is in no means an exaggeration. You can tell me to grow up but I will only be old and you will still be a douche bag. Second, you called the ATF because you got your *ss in a bunch when these grenades where posted on the Homemade Weaponry Section of the forum. Probably because you haven't made an *ss out of your self in awhile. If you were doing this for an article, then why could you never cite the agents that you spoke to or the code of federal regulation that it pertained to. You couldn't because there was no article and you got a half *ss answer for a ATF agent that was busy. These grenades have been used by Airsoft players for ever. If you gave a iota about the safety of player using these grenades, then why have you taken so long to speak out? That is a rhetorical question. please do not answer. Because you did not give a rip until it was posted two weeks ago. If you did then you would have been the one to contact the correct division of the ATF and find out what had to be done to verify that a TP grenades constituted a destructive device and got the word out to all the Airsoft fields and production companies that still used them. That would have been to much of a positive thing to do. All I have seen of your post on this forum are bragging and doom saying. For future reference, please take the following action when posting.

1. Re read three times.
2. Think about what you just said.
3. Then delete, delete, delete